n731nr pilot deviation

I love listening to air traffic control audio, either just live, or recordings of interesting interactions. He did request a clearance. Note that the question does NOT ask: > When ATC has you call them for pilot deviation you have made, what do they say on the phone? Calling the cops on "someone suspicious" has become a way to say "There's a minority person and I don't like something about them so I called the cops on them.". This guy is a real threat to himself and others. WWFeldman Pre-takeoff checklist Joined: Nov 11, 2019 Messages: 107 Display name: WWFeldman I'm sure we all remember our favorite bravo buster. They got a full 2/3 of their pilots certificated!! Hundreds could have died. I wonder if they're aware of how much exposure this has in the pilot community. He exercised his PIC. Pilot deviation can leave passengers, crew, and people on the ground in danger. Hard to believe there is somebody out there kind-of defending him! This is why the notion of sport and private pilot licenses are a bunch of BS. Attached is the letter in response to your above mentioned FOIA request. Have you ever said anything nasty to somebody else on the ground or anywhere? LOL this is probably the same guy that registered the aircraft to WIFE APPROVED LLC. Assuming N1NR requested clearance, in standard aviation communications, there is a clear protocol. Shout out to Capt. To all the negative comments we did not hear previous communication. Mistakes happen. document.getElementById( "ak_js" ).setAttribute( "value", ( new Date() ).getTime() ); He violated Bravo airspace. Looks like he was below 6000 the whole time. Federal Aviation Administration I suspect the way this will be (or has been) settled is that both the controller and the pilot will be counseled respectively on what they could have done to prevent the situation. I was really busy at the time and he took up much of my time and reduced the safe operation of the airspace. Good on you for being anti-US and pro-mask and anti-Vegas, but not in a discussion that has nothing to do with that, smart-guy. In contrast, the pilot of N731NR exhibited an unrepentant anti-authority attitude. How Much Does It Cost To Become A Flight Instructor? There are published VFR approaches and having flowing the west side "water tower" I know they're trivial. Anyway, a video has just been uploaded of an interaction between an air traffic controller and a pilot over the skies of Las Vegas on June 20, 2020. There's no stick up anyone's ass here just concerned people who want to ensure the people who trust us to get them to point B are safe. no no, Im saying the process in place is unnecessary - this phone call is more like a call to an upset friend than what is supposed to a dispassionate, factual entity (ATC, FAA). The Original Donna: Class Bravo & Charlie airspace requires certain verbal permission to fly in/out/ and through it, but you have basic lack of understanding when it comes to the airspace system I fear. It should be a few hundred. But generally, we want what is best (safest as well as most enjoyable) for the users. My father was an Air Traffic Controller when the accident happened over San Diego in 1979 (not the one on duty when the accident occurred) so I know just as much about the history of this airspace as you claim to know, maybe even more. Humans make mistakes sometimes its not a reason to bully somebody. The pilot was asked to leave, but decides to stay. The pilot will most likely face a license suspension and other penalties. You should be ashamed. Its ridiculous that youre allowed to take the control of a Cessna independently at 60-80 hours of learning. The ATC has so many things going on- for him to argue and therefore take her attention away from all the "balls in the air" she is dealing with, the punishment should be more than losing his license, he should be charged with attempted manslaughter or something. Nobody gives a f*. You have successfully joined our subscriber list. The Federal Aviation Administration publishes quarterly a compilation of enforcement actions against regulated aviation entities that are closed with either a civil penalty or issuance of a certificate suspension or revocation. On Reddit they doxed him. As such, he is supposed to go around the airspace. 3 This pilot is more than likely going to have to do recurrent training probably 10 to 15 hrs before privalages can be restored. Of course that is true, but people who are suffering recent onset of dementia / tumor-induced emotional outbursts / schizophrenia etc. It would be one thing if he "unintentionally" violated the Class B airspace (how exactly do you do that in this day and age?). Again, not a good decision. This may come as a shock to you, but us general aviation Cesena (sic) clowns have as much right to use the airspace as any commercial operation. Visit a tracon JUST ONCE. He should AT LEAST be suspended, and frankly, given his behavior, I have no issue with his losing it. The pilot was asked to leave, but decides to stay. Keep up the anti-mask bs. Thank you for your pointing out you're anti-USA and somehow a pilot incursion into Class Bravo airspace has to do with "anti-mask BS". 731NR | Pilots of America Home Forums Controlled Airspace Flight Following 731NR Discussion in ' Flight Following ' started by WWFeldman, Oct 29, 2020 . He's a danger to us all and I don't want to share the sky with him. Even if he was previously allowed in the airspace, once told to get out, he has to go, no debate and certainly no defiance. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Good luck. It causes paperwork (at the very least) on both sides and is also distracting from other important duties. This pilot penatrated that airspace at what appears to have been approximately 4800. 1) Probably not hypoxia. The guy should be investigated and suspended until taught both manners and flying law. Or the one over Cerritos in 1986?". Next morning he called student and flew with him back to FSD did 3 practice approaches with touch and go with the last being a full stop. CTO (Control Tower Operator) with AS Degree in ATC. People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. 866.835.5322 (866-TELL-FAA)Contact Us, United States Department of Transportation, Aviation Safety Draft Documents Open for Comment, Airport Coronavirus Response Grant Program, Legislation & Policies, Regulations & Guidance, Certificated Remote Pilots including Commercial Operators, Recreational Flyers & Modeler Community-Based Organizations, Archived Quarterly Enforcement Reports (These reports date back to the first quarter of 1997. Civil aviation authorities should raise pilot standards. . . Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my Now, I hate to defend this guy because what he did was insane but i'm not so quick to pull his ticket simply because I wouldn't want my ticket pulled if I messed up - though I wouldn't like that. Should you wish to inquire as to the status of your request, please contact the assigned FOIA Coordinator. twitter.com/journo_anon Public Records Requester. The begged question is false. This leads me to believe that a medical problem or hypoxia or something like that might (emphasis, _might__) have been a factor. PS: The trauma was from being hit with luggage that fell out of the overhead upon disembarking. I'm not so sure she would know how to "buy a clue"!? Almost would have met you that day but water saved me. Las Vegas class B is the only one Ive flown close to when I was on flight following trying to get into Henderson and they told me to squak 1200 and see ya. Me - no sir back in aprox 20mts. The Ultimate Guide On How To Become An Airline Pilot. FAA records for N731NR MuckRock I know what he did was wrong but I understand his frustration. Don't assume the pilot flying owns the aircraft. Join FlightAware View more flight history Purchase entire flight history for NRL731. The call taker should stick to the facts and avoid all emotionality, etc. https://onemileatatime.com/atc-audio-negligent-pilot/. We are going to explain what pilot deviation is in this article, and how serious this violation can be for you. I just looked over the link you posted. I live in Las Vegas. This pilot should have been arrested and given a breathalyzer upon landing. Pilot deviation is a serious mistake to make when you are piloting a plane, and the consequences could be disastrous. often don't recognize their own issue. I can almost guarantee you that this clown had the certified letter from the local FSDO awaiting in his mailbox, still smoking by the time he arrived home. N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. PDF NOTICE U.S. DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION - Federal Aviation Administration This letter acknowledges receipt of your FOIA request dated May 27, 2020, regarding any accident, investigation, pilot deviation reports, legal enforcement actions, or FSDO records, regarding a possible pivot deviation on June 20, 2020 where N731NR may have entered Bravo airspace without clearance. Due to the multiple violations including multiple times refusing to obey an ATC order, I am hoping the pilot's license is suspended at a minimum. Harrison Ford is an accomplished pilot that made the same sort of mistake that many Commercial ATP pilots have made setting up for the wrong runway or taxiway etc. She is going to give him the number when he's ready. I was the 16yo kid working the desk when his #2 instructor sent a private student off on his long cross country and controlled airspace solo flight he went to lunch. Why am I not surprised this happened in Vegas, where they're apparently allergic to rules. E This notice provides new procedures for investigating pilot deviations (PD), and completing FAA Form 8020-18, Investigation of Pilot Deviation Report by certificate-holding district offices (CHDO), Flight Standards District Offices (FSDO), and certificate management offices (CMO) with oversight of air carrier operators certificated under He did request a clearance. How hard would it be to just clear him through? My reliable bet is that sometime between approach switching the aircraft to tower and the time the phone number is read, the pilot gave the tower controller a sob story. I think by "Airforce" [sic] you're thinking of all those movies you've seen. Certainly, the other person on frequency broke the rules by transmitting directly to the pilot, but that was defensible and measured: the pilot had severely degraded situational awareness that was imperiling the safe operation of his aircraft. But it's not an excuse for the way he talked to the controller. Need advice on possible deviation : r/flying The pilot violated the FARs and FSDO needs to take appropriate action. I'd like to know more about the outcome. It seems like the pilot was intent on entering Bravo with or without permission. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. "N731NR (angrily): "I'm not ready to copy. It will get figured out. Or, the guy may be a massive jerk. Watch how 731NR Decides to fly right into class bravo and not even care about it. Flying his bird may get a lot less pleasant REAL fast. He flew the plane and student back, Mom advised student (he wanted to finish he's flight) he was done until she discussed it with IP and Dad as owner and Chief Pilot. For this pilot (tail number N731NR abbreviated to N1NR), it wasn't a mistake as noted by the following exchange: LAS Approach: "N1NR, I need you outside of the Bravo"N731NR: "Negative"LAS: "Negative what? The company is owned by Jeff Wachner, a real estate agent in Southern California. | Busted Bravo Airspace VASAviation - 519K subscribers Join Subscribe 9.7K 728K views 2 years ago Date: 20/JUN/2020 Your support is really. Please provide this information by COB, on Friday July 17, 2020, or we will go with the last known requestor from MuckRock.com, who we are showing as Matthew Phelan. 1NR, exit the Bravo immediately"N731NR (whining): "I've been talking to you the whole time. IFR Deviations - This is the most common of violations that happens the . Hundreds could have died. Nobody in Vegas is "allergic to rules." Id. Result - IP and my Mom who normally ran the business in Dads absence got back at the same time. I'm a commercial pilot and CFII. As we have previously mentioned, the penalties for pilot deviation can be very severe, and the action itself can often be deadly. Sort it out on the ground, or declare an emergency: pilot is an ass. A pilot will be given priority in an emergency situation, and they will need to submit a report of this emergency within 48 hours to the manager of the ATC facility if this is requested of them. When you have 2 F-16s or 2 F-15s escorting you that should bring sense into your head faster than having the nerve to argue. Airborne deviations can result when pilots stray from an assigned, heading, altitude, or instrument procedure, or if they penetrate controlled or restricted airspace without ATC clearance. He's going to find it hard for anyone to swallow his excuses. If this pilot had responded to the controllers first comment with, Oh my gosh. I dont know what will fix that. Must have been a Kennedy. I've gotta jump on the bandwagon in wondering "just what the heck 'Karen' was thinking" when she told the 99.9999999% of commentors on this site to get the "sticks out of their asses". Don't argue with these pros. Good for the controller for remaining reasonable. Dad was a FBO, Commercial, Instructor, Multi, Aerobatic, crop duster and Instrument. I noticed the same aircraft had an incident last year with a gear-up landing in St. Louis. Hey not fair to say that to PIA. Not for nothing, but shes only got 2 guys in the area, coulda cleared him through. Controllers do not make up things to pick on pilots. You don't get to tar the rest of us with his brush. Most helpful comments ( as chosen by the OMAAT community ). Keith - THANK YOU for all that you did to ensure the safety of your passengers and your crew! What would the discussion be today if there had been a midair collision like the one in San Diego in 1979 with the PSA 727 and a Cessna? Maybe, just maybe this controller was playing her Bravo authority a little too far? Thank you for your very thoughtful insight. If you read what I wrote with an open mind and still think I have a stick up my ass, go read up on Kobe Bryant the basketball legend no longer with us because someone buckaroo'd it. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. Any follow up on this? Car accidents because of human error are just as fatal only to less people. P.S. However, this data alone does not provide the basis for a determination regarding the. 2) If he claims some kind of medical condition, goodbye medical certificate. Sometimes, when major airports are busy, they ban transitions through their airspace, in which case you have to either: - route around, under, or above the relevant airspace It is really important to understand how severe the consequences can be. Keep up the anti-mask bs. (Apologies if external links aren't allowed.). She didn't offer a heading or instruction to resolve the issue. The compilation is based on data from the agency's Enforcement Information System (EIS). Doxing is not right. "N731NR (again, whining): "I requested Bravo clearance about 15 miles ago. Most aircraft are owned by a business, a corporation, a leasing company, or someone who rents their aircraft out. The Flight . The few concerns about behavior affected by incipient tumor or hypoxia bring back memories. That being said, its not just a comfort level thing or willingness issue - its often a safety Im an air traffic controller in a class B airspace (one of the 8 US airports busier than LAS) and I have to admit that Im occasionally underwhelmed by the services that my coworkers are willing to provide; how unenthusiastic they can be about working a little harder to allow a VFR aircraft to enter the airspace. Secure .gov websites use HTTPS People get frustrated in the air just like they do in cars and dont get their license suspended. How reassuring and interesting your post is, Eldo. I have to say the VASAviation guts who make these videos to an awesome job, its really cool how they combine the audio with the radar detail. For purposes of these compilations, a regulated aviation entity holds a certificate issued by the FAA, (e.g., air carrier operating certificate, repair station certificate, pilot school certificate, airport operating certificate) or is a foreign air carrier or other aviation entity regulated under Part 129 of the Federal Aviation Regulations, 14 CFR Part 129. Maybe follow-up later with a phone call to make sure they knew it was entirely unintentional, you immediately corrected the error, and that safety is paramount. But if it was just a misjudgment, and we all make those from time to time, the appropriate response would be to simply apologize to the Controller, then get out. Is there any way you can vector me through? Share sensitive information only on official, secure websites. All the information we have at this point shows that he blamed ATC for . But if we want to affect change, we need to do it safely and respectfully. Caller - this is xx. Second in a high traffic area like near an airport multiple pilots can be on the same channel, it is a way to identify the pilot speaking as one pilot may sound like another. Or . We cannot possibly explain reasoning behind every denial of service at the time it happens. Thank you. Honestly I'm not sure why. To break down the exchange, the air traffic controller orders the aircraft to leave the Bravo airspace and pilot whines and refuses because he's already in the airspace. What's the big deal? Both pilot and atc handled the situation poorly. Blatantly ignoring ATC is criminally gross negligence. Ah, Karen. N731NR (still whining): "I've asked for clearance multiple times. While we do try to list all the best miles and points deals, the site does not include all card companies or credit card offers available in the marketplace. Interceptions are dangerous and that jet blast and thrust from either twin thrust (F-15) or single thrust (F-16) could put the Cessna into a dangerous condition. I too am amazed at the next tower's apology. FAA CPL-H Last thing I want flying over a populated area is some guy who thinks he owns the airspace, and willing to butt heads over it. Pilot Deviations - IFR Magazine Recognizing the mistakes, learning from them, and apologizing makes for more experienced PICs, and thus safer airspace. We will leave some of the most common violations below for you to read about. Cut off a commercial airline at the beginning of his short final resulting in a missed approach and go round for him. Then he flew back to Torrance the next day. Privacy Policy. There is zero excuse for wasting ATC's time in a Class B in this age of airliners everywhere. The F-15 and F-16 have to go over twice that. Everything is on tape. If you should have any trouble viewing this email or the attachment, please notify us immediately. This guy make me sick!!! This should help to give you a better understanding of pilot deviation and the risks that are associated with it. Subject: FOIA 2020-007191WP DUE: 8/6/2020, 411A Highland AvenueSomerville, MA 02144-2516, Subject: Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) Request 2020-007191WP. That's movie crap. Only then did he comply with instructions. The more belligerent she became the more concerned the staff was. Yeah, this whole sick daughter thing sounds like so much after action excuse making. Another pilot chimes in with his thoughts. Even the big airline pilots (American, Delta, etc.) Turns out he's a slumlord, "supplement" pill pusher, and owns a "wealth generation" company. The owner of that plane holds a Commercial Pilot Certificate. "Abraham Lincoln, letter to H.L. About 45 minutes after the student left my phone rings Caller - this is xx. I'm without reason or belief to know why you lack the ability to be surprised. The worst case scenario would not be to lose your certificate. Other pilots chimed in calling him for what he was. Whether medical or not, whether deserving of sympathy or not, I hope this guy loses his license. This pilot came in over Lake Meade under the class B which requires no ATC clearance to operate an aircraft. You have to request a Bravo clearance. [His lack of permission and knowledge about needing such was discussed by previous posters and is referenced here just for completeness.]. - entering B without explicit auth Either that, or "Karen" is the "wife" this aircraft is registered to in "Wife Approved LLC". He refuses to leave airspace even though he never had clearance to fly through it, and he refuses to take down a number because hes flying., Hopefully an investigation is done and this guy loses his license. Pilot "I busted class b". How much you want to bet this pilot is one of the people who refuse to wear a mask? E Air traffic controllers are susceptible to power trips and moods and biases, just like everyone else. I'm not at liberty to discuss the matter further, but the safety of passengers and crew are paramount. VFR altitude adjustable to an incorrect barometric pressure of 200'. I don't care where people get frustrated. NASTY ARGUMENT between Cessna Pilot and Vegas ATC! He responds he requested clearance previously. This guys ego trip does not trump the lives of the flying public and those on the ground who live under the pattern. Pilot deviation is when the actions of the pilot result in the violation of a Federal Aviation Regulation or a North American Aerospace Defense Command Air Defense Identification Zone tolerance. This is a willful/intentional violation of FAR and ATC instructions. She kept phoning her father, a MD in LA and complaining about her mistreatment and threatening everybody with lawsuits. This is usually in the following format: (Aircraft identification) POSSIBLE PILOT DEVIATION, ADVISE YOU CONTACT (facility) AT (telephone number).